Anthem mic and volume output observations

[ejbsk8]

I would like to start a conversation to confirm thoughts and my experience with the anthem. I purchased an Anthem system to use with my BreedLove AC-200/sm with JLD Bridge Truss System. I purchased it with two things in mind. One to improve the quality of the electronic sound to closer match the acoustic sound, which I enjoyed very much, and to use the Anthem in a future guitar upgrade.

The Anthem was quite powerful in my Breedlove. The mic mix was set almost to full and after blending the undersaddle pickup I had lots of volume and headroom. Rarely did I turned the overall output volume control past 50%. Never had a problem with low volume or low output over a year and half of playing in church.

Now I've upgraded the guitar. A wonderful All Mahogany 2012 Taylor DN5. The sound board is very responsive to mids and highs and it is an overall higher quality instrument than my BreedLove. I've had the Anthem system professionally transferred to the new Taylor DN5. The same mic mix setting on the Taylor is impossible. The Taylor seems to require that the mic mix be rolled down to nearly zero along with quite a bit less undersaddle pickup mix to capture the sound of the guitar. This combination produces measurably less output volume. So much so that is it a problem during live performance.

Questions and fun part for the Moderator and anyone else.

1. It appears the low volume problem can be cured by increasing mic mix and increasing the undersaddle mix. Is this true and by design in the Anthem?

2. Why so great of a variance in mic mix adjustments between guitars (FYI: I have a theory, I just would like to hear some other thoughts first before I share).

Thank you. All responses will be appreciated.

Ed

[Caleb_Elling]

Hey Ed,
Thanks for posting.

The way that the Anthem is designed, the mix gives you blend control for everything over 250Hz. The low frequencies are carried by the pickup, no matter where the mix is set. If you blend over towards the mic side of the mix, the Mic Trim is designed to allow you to match the mic's response to that of the guitar. Since the pickup level is fixed, you can balance the tone of the mic to reflect what you hear acoustically. If you want a brighter or darker tone from the mic, you can increase or decrease the Trim to follow your own preference.

If you increase the mic trim significantly and change the blend towards the pickup more, in theory, you could raise the output level of the system. However, it wasn't designed to be used in that way.

Because the Anthem is so responsive to the guitar, and therefore, subject to the guitar's output level, tone, and materials, the Anthem will vary quite a bit from guitar to guitar. So it's not odd at all that you would need to set the Mic Trim at a different (even drastically different) setting to match the guitar. Since the undersaddle level is fixed, the saddle material of a given guitar plays a big part in the overall output level of the Anthem.

I hope that helps.

[ejbsk8]

Volume and output follow up

Caleb,

Thank you for the answer. It is helpful. I guess I should change my term "mic mix" to 'mic trim". The mic trim is what I found changed dramatically between guitars.

I am pleased that you were able to confirm that the mic's response to different guitars could be dramatically different. Given the placement of the mic it would be natural to expect that the mic would appear very responsive (hot) on the Taylor acoustic dreadnaught as compared to the BreedLove with the JDL Truss mounted nearby the mic. On the Taylor with the mic trim set at very low settings and can reproduce my guitar tone with the the mix rolled all the way towards the mic. As you described it may be possible to add more volume to my overall system by mixing in more pickup. I sorta did that to fix my current situation. I turn up the mic trim incrementally past that first pleasant reproduction of tone and added more pickup to the mix to reproduce the guitar sound. Increasing both the mic trim and pickup mix seems to give me more overall volume to work while provding a little head room on the volume (it is no longer turn up to full) I like the sound too.

However I did not expect your answer that the overall gain more directly correlates with the saddle material. I have the LR Baggs element in the Breedlove guitar now. That pickup is also quite loud and energitic. If the saddle is that signifiicant, is there a white paper or an overview that you can provide that explains how the Anthem pickup (or other LR Baggs undersaddle pickups) respond to different saddle material types?

Again Thank you for your responses and consideration.
Ed

[Caleb_Elling]

If the saddle is that signifiicant, is there a white paper or an overview that you can provide that explains how the Anthem pickup (or other LR Baggs undersaddle pickups) respond to different saddle material types?

Again Thank you for your responses and consideration.
Ed

Hey Ed,
We don't actually have anything published on the subject; not to say we haven't tried.

Saddle materials react differently from one guitar to the next, making the results usually unpredictable. In one guitar a bone saddle might dull the tone, and in another guitar it might open it up and even make it louder. Especially with organic material, like bone, there are even variations from one saddle blank to the next.

So between bone, micarta, tusq and corian, which are the more common materials, there are wide and unpredictable variations, not just in output, but in string balance as well.

[ejbsk8]

Anthem Mic and Volume output observations

Caleb,

You have provided a lot of good information, which I appreciate very much, and.... provided no absolute answers except for this:

The fact that the system responded so differently to my BreedLove as compared to my Taylor guitar is proof that the system is very responsive and dynamic to each individual instrument. I wish the story did not end here. All that is left to do is play, enjoy, and try out different strings and saddles and see what happens.

Thank you for your time. It's time for me to start playing.

Ed

[Andreve]

Hi, I've just installed my Anthem to my Guild F-150, but not sure how to properly setup the mic pot mix and where to start. With the blend control fully to the neck position I suppose to be a good starting point, what sound/tone/presence should I look for while adjusting the pot with the included tool?

[ejbsk8]

Adjusting the Anthem Tru Mic Trim to match your guitar

Andreve,

I would suggest starting with a clean signal chain. In other words plug in the guitar directly into your monitor or amp with all eq and volumes set at zero or half. Then being working the mic trim from the lowest setting up or the highest setting down until the guitar begins to sound good with the mixer set all the way to mic (towards the neck). Once the guitar mic trim is set then you can begin to mix in the pickup to taste.

I hope this helps. Anyone else have tips for dialing in the Anthem Tru Mic?


Ed

[Caleb_Elling]

Andreve,

I hope this helps. Anyone else have tips for dialing in the Anthem Tru Mic?


Ed

I completely agree. Set the mix to the mic side, plug directly into your amp or mixer, with EQ set flat. Then you can make adjustments to the mic trim to get the mid and high frequency response to match your guitar. You can add more mic for extra brightness or take some out to darken the signal from there. I usually prefer to just match it to my unplugged tone though.

[Andreve]

Thanks guys, I'm awaiting my Tusq saddle and bridge pins to arrive tomorrow and will adhere to your suggestion. I undertand this upgrade will also make a difference as I currently make use of a cheap plastic interim saddle which I used to get the height to a nice action.

The original nuBone saddle was sanded too low due to the original Fishman thats' about 4x the height of the Anthem's piezzo strip so I could not make use of this saddle anymore.

Thanks, can't wait!

[Andreve]

The TUSQ saddle and bridge-pins upgrade made a huge different in sound, but I'm still battling to get "that" tone with minimal or no "quack". I tend to regret not going for the Lyric instead and now I'm having difficulty to turn the mic gain/trim pot with the included tool, hope I did not damage it with the amounts of tweaks.

[ejbsk8]

Andreve,

Do not be discouraged. The system has some flexibility of sound that is cool to use. You will figure out what is best.

About the trim tool. Is the included tool a small flat head or a phillips (+) style jewelers screw driver? The Anthem installed on my guitar is easy to adjust with a phillips head jewelers screw driver like one used in cell phone to tablet repair kit rather than the flat head jewelers screw driver indicated in the instruction manual. I can easily feel the phillips head lock gently into the trim screw and adjust the full range of the trim; about 3/4 rotation max.

Let me know if it helps.

Ed

[Andreve]

Andreve,

Do not be discouraged. The system has some flexibility of sound that is cool to use. You will figure out what is best.

About the trim tool. Is the included tool a small flat head or a phillips (+) style jewelers screw driver? The Anthem installed on my guitar is easy to adjust with a phillips head jewelers screw driver like one used in cell phone to tablet repair kit rather than the flat head jewelers screw driver indicated in the instruction manual. I can easily feel the phillips head lock gently into the trim screw and adjust the full range of the trim; about 3/4 rotation max.

Let me know if it helps.

Ed

I guess you're right my friend, it does provide the extra flexibility eg. extra punch in live performance, but in recording I prefer the acoustic sound turning the blend control all the way to the neck, so I guess it gives me about 97~98% tru-mic as I still can hear some under-saddle coming through.

In regard to the trim tool, the plastic flat tip might just have softened with the couple of tries thus not turning the "+" screw anymore and perhaps just slipping.

I will try your suggestion of a phillips head screwdriver as I need to increase the intensity ever so slightly then it should be fine.

What boggles me is that yesterday I had a complete different sound from my guitar (even unplugged), the guitar felt very "dead" and closed-in, not sure why.

[Caleb_Elling]

... so I guess it gives me about 97~98% tru-mic as I still can hear some under-saddle coming through...

Just to clarify this, the mic will never carry any sound below 250Hz, and so will never carry 100% of the signal. So even if the mix is set to the full mic side of the blend, the undersaddle will still carry 250Hz and below. That's how the Anthem is designed, for added feedback resistance and a stronger low end response.

[Andreve]

Just to clarify this, the mic will never carry any sound below 250Hz, and so will never carry 100% of the signal. So even if the mix is set to the full mic side of the blend, the undersaddle will still carry 250Hz and below. That's how the Anthem is designed, for added feedback resistance and a stronger low end response.

Got it thanks! I've managed to make that last little tweak with the mic trim pot with the use of proper philips screw driver and I'm now happy with my sound.

[Caleb_Elling]

That's great!

Beautiful guitar, by the way.