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help! my Lyric sounds pretty bad

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  • MorganEliot
    replied
    Hi BollesGtr,
    I am sorry that you are having some tone issues with your parlor/lyric setup.
    Are you using the Lyric Classical in the parlor? Also, what are you playing your guitar through? (ie PA, Amp, Recording rig, etc.)
    The "harsh" sound that you are getting can be caused by having too much of the presence mixed in. As far as the presence adjustment goes, the pot can become a little stiff from being left in one spot for a long period of time (like from the factory, or sitting on a retail shelf for a while). I would suggest turning it back and forth a few times to help loosen the pot. The tool that we send out with the Lyric is strong enough to make the adjustments needed. Once you are able to get the higher frequency sounds from the presence control dialed in to represent that of your unplugged sound, you will be able to dial in any needed EQ or alternate mic placement much more effectively without killing your tone.

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  • BollesGtr
    replied
    Originally posted by Bryan McManus View Post
    Hi Mono,

    Thanks for asking about this.

    From what you've said so far, it sounds like a few factors are combining to produce a disappointing result. The small body of the parlor guitar surely doesn't produce the same bass that a larger body would which can add to a thinner plugged-in sound.

    The Lyric's low frequency compression is meant to keep the bass under control but not conceal it. However, a few players have found the compressed bass to be lacking relative to the fixed mid-range and adjustable treble, especially when compared to pickups(sources that are not microphones).

    Do you have room to move the microphone fixture around? If so, I'm happy to send additional adhesives for testing different placement options.

    Lastly, based on that last factor, it can be useful and informative if you can install that Lyric into another guitar for an A/B comparison of that part of the equation.

    If you ultimately feel there may be a defect in the Lyric mic or preamp circuit, we are more than willing to receive it from you for testing and repair or replacement if needed.

    Please let me know what you find or if I can send any materials that can help dial the sound or reveal a defect.
    I also am very unhappy with the lyric in my parlor guitar. Mine is a loud instrument with good bass. It was rebraced in the 70's to make it a classical guitar. It is very balanced. Here's the sound with a good external mike: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m130iH0w0mo I have been very happy with having a lyric installed in my flamenco and another handmade full size classical. This is my 3rd lyric and the only one that yields a very poor sound. It sounds very harsh and almost overdriven- yes I did turn the volume down- still poor tone. With other mikes or no mike this parlor has a very pleasing and balanced sound. I tried having my installer move the mike more towards the treble as the sound is an uncontrolled and somewhat bassy sound. This did not help at all. If I use the pre amp and really do vodoo which then makes it sound dead I can get a more normal but lifeless sound. I tried installing a sound post to restrict the top and moved it to many locations. The sound is always harsh- very different from the sound I get with the lyric in my full sized classical. I have done every possible adjustment but one. When I try to use the plastic tool to turn the small presence knob the tip bends because it's hard to turn the knob with this fragile plastic tip. I bought some metal tools from Harbor Freight that would work but do not want to try this until I know why the plastic one that comes seems not able to stand up to being used to turn the adjustment knob either direction. By greatly reducing the volume knob and doing serious adjustments with the notch filter to decrease the volume of the g and d strings and by reducing those frequencies I get a dead but balanced resulting sound. Note: my parlor instrument was, of course, originally a steel string and was rebraced lighter but sounds fine with a mike- go to my link above. What should I do and why does the plastic prescence wand not have enough rigdity to be used? Please help as I love the lyric in the other guitars.
    Last edited by BollesGtr; 06-09-2015, 09:18 PM.

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  • Bryan McManus
    replied
    Hi Chris,

    I hope you had a good holiday.

    If I were in your situation, I would probably consider the iMIX because you have good results with it in another guitar. You have a reference point that can affect how you perceive other systems. I suggest seeing if you can experience a version of the Anthem system already installed in a guitar. Do you have a Larrivee dealer in your town or city? If so, they offer a few models with the Stagepro Anthem installed.

    I personally feel the Anthem is a "best-of-both-worlds" system that mixes the best parts of each signal together to create one that sounds more like the guitar it's installed into than others.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chris_Taylor
    replied
    At this point, I'm not worried about the $100.00. I just want the best sound I can get out of my 714. I want good response and great low end like the iMix delivers. I do NOT want another quacky sounding pickup for $200 like the Lyric. I was very dissapointed in the Lyric. It would be fine for someone singing Bob Dylan songs in a coffee house but, for someone that wants to "play out" in alternate tunings and exercise fingerstyle capabilities such as Tommy Emmanuel style...the Lyric isn't it. I want something with some ooompfh on the bottom end and is responsive with fingerstyle. Are you saying the Anthem is the ticket?

    Leave a comment:


  • Bryan McManus
    replied
    Hi Chris,

    Thanks for replying. I want to mention, if you weren't aware, that the Anthem is available in a "streamlined" format called the Anthem-SL. In the SL model, the Anthem preamp circuit is pre-set to fully utilize the crossover - Element handling low frequencies up to 250Hz and Tru-Mic handling everything from that point and above - as well as miniaturized for attachment to the output jack. Its soundhole-mounted control is just like the Lyric's but with a cream face.

    The Anthem-SL is the same suggested cost as the Lyric so you don't have to choose the more costly Anthem.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chris_Taylor
    replied
    I really appreciate your response and recommendation concerning the Anthem vs. iMix.

    Again, I'm really after that solid low end bass response that I'm able to obtain with iMix as well as the Expression System on the Taylor. I just do not care for the mids on the Taylor. The iMix sounds pretty good in my 414 however, I would like to try the Anthem just for a change of pace but, do not want the same $300 buyers remorse with the Anthem that I experienced with the $200 Lyric.

    I'm also seriously looking at ordering the Fishman Rare Earth Blend system but, I'd like to remain loyal to LR Baggs since I've used them for many years. At the risk of repeating myself, you feel I will be satisfied with the low end response and responsiveness of the Anthem vs. iMix or Rare Earth?

    I realize that this is a relative question based upon preference but, I also know you have more experience with these different systems than myself.


    Thanks again for your advice.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bryan McManus
    replied
    Hi Chris,

    Thanks for your question. Sorry for the delay. I'm also sorry to hear the Lyric didn't pan out in your Taylor. I'm happy to provide the materials you would need to install it into another guitar.

    Between the iMIX and the Anthem, my personal choice would be the Anthem. The pickup and microphone crossover mix allows the pickup and microphone to operate where they sound their best. It still provides the punchy string response of the Element but virtually eliminates any of the quacky midrange response normally associated with undersaddle piezo sensors. The undersaddle pickup handles the low frequency duties, relieving the microphone of its risk of low frequency feedback.

    The iMIX would be the preferred choice if you want the option of splitting the output of two full-range sources. The iMIX can output in stereo, allowing you to connect each signal to separate channels, EQ them separately, apply different effects to each signal, etc.

    The iMIX is a very good system but I would say the Anthem is capable of more accurate plugged-in sound in a wider variety of playing situations.

    Leave a comment:


  • Chris_Taylor
    replied
    My Lyric is lacking bass response as well on Taylor

    I replaced the expression system in my Taylor 714 with a Lyric and was very dissapointed. It sound about identical to the A/B/C analysis mono provided. I have an iMix in one of my other Taylors and it sounds very good! I just thought I'd try the Lyric since it had some good reviews. I've since pulled the Lyric and gone back to the Taylor ES for now. I love the low end from Taylor's ES but, the mids sound like a kazoo!

    With that being said, I'm trying to decide if I purchase another iMix or an Anthem. I'm looking for a very solid response on the low end and feel the element may be a factor. Which pick would you recommend for good low end when comparing the iMix and Anthem? I've decided to cut my losses on the Lyric and it's sitting like new back in the box until I find a home for it.

    I was also a little confused about your statment concerning the two presence controls? My Lyric only has one presence control on the volume knob. Can you please clarify?

    Any information you may be able to provide would be very helpful!

    Thank you!

    Leave a comment:


  • Bryan McManus
    replied
    Hi Mono,

    I'm unable to say how to alter or modify the preamp circuit in order to change the response. We designed the system to respond accurately to a wide variety of guitars and, due to factors specific to each guitar, cannot be guaranteed to reproduce each guitar precisely. That's why it would be necessary to make those EQ adjustment with your amplifier/PA channel or if you have an interfacing preamp/EQ device.

    Leave a comment:


  • mono morello
    replied
    I strongly suggest you L.R.Baggs to check the Lyric Pre EQ preset for your next editions. You could improve seriously there to get a really good balanced and natural sounding system.
    Roll off the 1 K frecuency (at least -12 db). Add some bass on 100/150 HZ. You'd be so muh better then.

    Question: Can i (or a luthier) modify the Lyric Pre EQ preset?????????? How??????

    Leave a comment:


  • Bryan McManus
    replied
    Thank you for the PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • mono morello
    replied
    Hi Bryan,

    Thanks for your interest and support. Sent you a private message

    Leave a comment:


  • Bryan McManus
    replied
    Hi Mono,

    I'm sorry we weren't able to resolve your dissatisfaction with the tone of the Lyric. It sounds as though it's not the system for you to use since you're looking for more bass response.

    I'd like to stress that we're quite interested in testing that Lyric unit to ensure it's within specifications. If it is or is not, we can work out options by private message or direct email.

    Leave a comment:


  • mono morello
    replied
    Hi Bryan,

    Thanks for your EQ tips. Unfortunately i won't be able to try them cause i already took off the Lyric from the Larrivee and put the Fishman rare earth blend on it.
    Much better sound right out of the box with very very little eq needed. I got really frustrated with the Lyric. I wish it had some more openness...

    By the way, i did install the Lyric on to a bigger body Epiphone and now the Lyric sounds more natural. Because of the bigger body, it's easier to pull more bass response. Though it still lacks real bass. To me, if you have to drastically eq a sound signal, there's a problem before the eq. You can do something about it but the result may not end up sounding good or natural. In my opinion.
    If i were responsible for this product design i for sure would try to let it be a little more open on low end, not that mid driven and release some of the compression wich i found excessive.

    Now. I bought this unit and brought it down to Argentina, Southamerica. Where i live right now.
    If i were in the US, that unit would have been sent back for exchange maybe for an Anthem system. But in my case i can't send the Lyric back. I mean, i don't want to put any more money on that product.

    Would be nice to have from Baggs some solution here. I knew i was running the risk of buying a new and not yet proved or better said approved product.
    Let me know if you see any possible solution to my bad experience. I own the Five.0 and the Venue DI and love both of them. So i was a big Baggs fan ...
    I did send my adress and contact info by mail as you suggeted me to [email protected]. Didn't get any response yet. That was to get some extra adhesives which is not necessary anymore. I ended up using some commercial double tape wich works better than the original. The volumen fell apart after two days of being installed.
    I hope my review helps in any way to the Lyric to improve on your next editions

    As i said before, on the Epiphone sounded better, you can hear some natural and realistic sound but there's always that tiny, lack of bass quality to the sound.
    To me, the Lyric still need some development. It sure has the potencial to be one of the best amplifying systems in the market...

    Hope to get through this frustration and still remain a Baggs fan.

    Leave a comment:


  • Bryan McManus
    replied
    Hi Mono,

    Thanks for the follow-up and for linking that A/B/C comparison. I'll admit the Lyric in your comparison video sounds much as you described. I'd like to explore some possible remedies.

    More than analyzing the comparison, I'd like to zero in on things that can get the sound you're looking for from your Lyric and I'm confident we can help you achieve a satisfying result.

    Presence trim - Now that you've adjusted your Lyric's presence control, let's move on to other factors.

    Placement - Location of the mic can be critical, particularly on a small body guitar like a parlor model. I don't recall if we discussed the specific location(s) you've tried in your guitar. The default or recommended location may not work well in this case and, if so, locating the "sweet spot" would be most important as the Lyric's mic is very directional and sensitive.

    You mentioned in your post that you've tried all possible EQ settings but we never got to specifics. Therefor I'd like to make an EQ setting recommendation to you based on what we heard from the Lyric in your recording.

    Use the two mid-range adjusters with the frequency selectors in the following way:

    Adjust the high-mid frequency selector full counter-clockwise which is 500Hz and use the cut/boost control above it to cut it all the way. If you find that cuts too much from that frequency, cut a little less.

    Then adjust the low-mid frequency selector full counter-clockwise which is 100Hz and boost a little using the cut/boost control above it. That should make the bass more apparent.

    Based on what we heard in your recording, it actually doesn't sound like there is an issue with the Lyric's microphone or preamp but rather a group of factors contributing to the current result. If you are unable to get an amplified sound much closer to that of the unplugged guitar by the methods we've suggested so far, we are more than willing to receive it from you for testing.
    Last edited by Bryan McManus; 05-30-2014, 04:16 PM. Reason: spellin'

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