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Lyric in a Red Line Advanced Parlor (Installation Notes)

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  • Lyric in a Red Line Advanced Parlor (Installation Notes)

    Hey all!
    I installed a Lyric in a Red Line Advanced Parlor guitar last week, and I thought that I'd share my notes on it. Hopefully this will help anyone looking for information on the Lyric in smaller bodied guitars.

    The guitar itself had a surprisingly good bass response for a parlor guitar, which was odd to me because of it's shallower body. The mid's were nice and powerful, like you would expect from a parlor or 0-body, and the highs were bright and chimey. Overall, it was a very pleasant guitar to play.

    (Pictures Below)

    The bridgeplate was smaller, as I expected that it would be, but there was sufficient space enough to mount the Lyric mic without hitting the bracing or bridge pins or hanging off of the front of the plate. After installing the battery and the rest of the wire clips, I plugged it into a Venue through our PA system here in the shop. My previous experience with the Lyric in smaller guitars (OM through parlor) gave me a pretty good idea of what to expect- my expectations were actually right on. The sound was very mid-heavy and even a little boxy. Turning up the presence control helped, but it really only masked the honky mids. So I put the guitar back on my work bench in order to de-string and re-position the mic.

    The next place that I would naturally try on a smaller guitar would be in front of the bridgeplate, directly to the top. However, there wasn't quiet enough room between the x-bracing and the plate to fit the mic. So I re-positioned the mic and put it behind the plate, directly to the top, centered between the 3rd and 4th bridge pins. This position sounded slightly more balanced than the previous, but there were about 3 different frequencies that stood out as being pretty un-natural to this specific guitar's unplugged sound. After doing some EQ'ing with the Venue, the sound was better, but I was not able to get a sound that really did the guitar justice.

    As a final attempt before reverting to my original placement and changing the mic's horizontal placement (along the length of the bridgeplate), I decided to move the mic towards the treble side of my last position. This put the mic parallel with the bridge plate, on the top, as far as it would go towards the treble side, before bumping into the X brace. This placement was not something that I had tried before, but I thought it may be worth the effort if I could get a better tone. The results of this placement were excellent. The tone was similar the last position, but with a much more accurate mid-range. Now the bass and mids were taken care of, and after a simple adjustment to the Presence control, it was set. If I was going to play it live I might do an additional cut around 300Hz, just for my own preference. In the end though, the sound from the Lyric was an accurate representation of what was heard unplugged.

    You can see from the attached picture that there was not much room to work with. The picture of the mic is the final position that I ended up on.

    If anyone has questions, feel free to ask or comment.

  • #2
    Redline_2.jpg Redline_inside.jpg Red Line_placement.jpg

    Here are the pictures.

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    • #3
      Originally posted by Caleb_Elling View Post
      [ATTACH=CONFIG]80[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]81[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]82[/ATTACH]

      Here are the pictures.
      Hello.
      Do you think this placement could work for a OM?

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      • #4
        Originally posted by Fabian Jarrin View Post
        Hello.
        Do you think this placement could work for a OM?
        It very well could work for an OM. I don't think I've ever needed to do anything that extreme on an OM, but each guitar is different.

        If you are experiencing the same tonal issues that I was getting with this guitar, then this placement could be a great way to go.

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        • #5
          That is pretty much exactly where I ended up putting mine in a Martin 000-15m with the same results.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by John B View Post
            That is pretty much exactly where I ended up putting mine in a Martin 000-15m with the same results.
            Mine is a luthier made guitar based on a OM. It sounds great unpluged, I`ve tried two positions for the Lyric, the standard and one near the treeble side . The standrad position gave a little boxy sound, the other one is fine. I`ve found a good amplified sound with the tone very near to the guitar sound turning the presence control, except when I play an E (open 6th string or on the 4th string), where it booms every time I play it hard. Any sugestion?

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            • #7
              Thanks Caleb and John. I haven`t tried this placement yet , but I`ll do.

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              • #8
                You might be able to get that boomy sound out of the signal with some minor EQ. Moving the mic is also an option. Although, I would personally try some basic EQ first.

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                • #9
                  Same problème with my Martin 000-15m

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mogwai View Post
                    Same problème with my Martin 000-15m
                    Hey Mogwai,
                    Have you tried following any of the processes mentioned above to see if you can achieve a more balanced tone?

                    I know that Morgan had offered to send you the alternate positioning diagram (on another forum thread), did you email him yet?

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                    • #11
                      I´ve tried the position you suggested with very good result. Great tone and the boomy sound on E dissapeared. Thanks

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Fabian Jarrin View Post
                        I´ve tried the position you suggested with very good result. Great tone and the boomy sound on E dissapeared. Thanks
                        That's great to hear! I'm glad that it worked for you.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          KJTCAh

                          That's an interesting position Caleb. Probably entirely coincidental but the best amplified sound I ever got from my dreadnought guitar was in the early 1970s using a FRAP - and the FRAP had to be positioned on the outside of the guitar close to parallel to the bottom edge of the bridge - it didn't need any EQ. My FRAP position seems quite close to your Lyric. Maybe that's the magic spot for other guitars too.

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                          • #14
                            Originally posted by mikeguthro View Post
                            That's an interesting position Caleb. Probably entirely coincidental but the best amplified sound I ever got from my dreadnought guitar was in the early 1970s using a FRAP - and the FRAP had to be positioned on the outside of the guitar close to parallel to the bottom edge of the bridge - it didn't need any EQ. My FRAP position seems quite close to your Lyric. Maybe that's the magic spot for other guitars too.
                            Wow. That's interesting. Maybe there's something to it.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Lyric in Martin CEO 7

                              ..

                              Hi Caleb,

                              I followed a link to this page. I have tried the Lyric on the bridge plate and approximately where you placed it on your parlor but still not satisfied. The CEO 7 doesn't sound "boxy" when playing without amplification, but it does with the Lyric. There is not a lot of room between the bridge plate and the first tone bar going across the top, between the x-brace.

                              Is there any consensus on what to expect when placing the mic close to a brace? When moving the mic from the bridge plate to the top you lose the thickness of the bridge plate, does that have a significant impact on what the mic "hears"? Does the angle one places the mics tortoise housing (across the grain vs angled or with the grain of the top) have a discernible affect on what reaches the diaphragm?

                              Are you aware of anyone else using the Lyric with a CEO 7.

                              FYI the CEO 7 is a mahogany guitar with a lightly braced Adirondack top. Similar in size to the Gibson L00.

                              Thanks,

                              O..

                              Guitar specs here if you are interested; http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guita...earch+Ad+Group
                              Last edited by Oldghm; 04-07-2016, 08:58 AM.

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