Lyric with M1 Passive or M80

[timkjuk]

I’m thinking of adding a magnetic pickup to the Lyric currently installed on my Martin D1. This is partly because I’ve been impressed with remarks in the forum that the mag adds some richness to the bass, which I think my sound needs. It’s also partly because, although if I have time and help to adapt to the venue I can use the Lyric with no problems, I’m doing open mic nights and similar things at present and I often have no time and no sound man to help, and it is difficult to control feedback issues. It would make things a lot less stressful to know that, if necessary, I can rely partly or wholly on the mag to provide a workable sound.

I’m considering two options 1) To add an M1 Passive to the pre-amp of the lyric and 2) To separately install an M80. The first is the simpler and most economical – the second will require me to drill a hole in the guitar! But the M80 looks to be a better pickup, and to incorporate more body sound, than the M1. So it might be more suitable if I have to rely on it largely or totally in inhospitable situations. On the other hand, I wonder if it is possible that incorporating more body sound might mean that a blend of the M80 and Lyric would be more vulnerable to feedback, than a blend of the M1 and Lyric.

In either case, I envisage the Lyric going through my Venue DI and the mag going straight into the PA. This means the mag will rely on whatever EQ the PA provides, but I’m assuming that it won’t need as much or as subtle EQing as the Lyric.

Are there any other considerations? And what would you advise?

Thanks

Tim

[timkjuk]

Just thought that I could get the best of both worlds and install the M80 in passive mode on the Lyric preamp. This would save me having to drill a hole in the guitar, although it will mean me paying for something I won't use. Will I take full advantage of the pickup by this method? If so, that just leaves the question of whether this combination might be more vulnerable to feedback than the Lyric/M1 combination.

[Caleb_Elling]

Hey Tim,
I don't think that the M80/Lyric would be significantly more feedback-prone than the M1/Lyric combo, at least aside from stadium level performances.

The M80 is an excellent pickup, largely because it has so much more body than the M1, while maintaining high feedback resistance.

Of course, I would always recommend trying to learn the equipment that you have, before adding more to to it (i.e. the Lyric/Venue). However, if you are set on adding a good standalone source that can be used in conjunction with the Lyric or by itself, the M80 is probably what I would do if it was my guitar.

If you have further questions or concerns, please let me know.

[Caleb_Elling]

Also, if you (or anyone else) would like to get a better education on how to use the Venue more effectively, feel free to post questions or give me a call at 805-929-3545 ext. 121.

-Caleb

[timkjuk]

Thanks Caleb. I've been out of circulation for a few days, so have only just checked back in. I'm sure your advice about getting to know the system I have first before adding something else is good. The problem is that so far I've been under pressure at gigs and simply not had the time and help to solve the feedback problems. Since I've only just started performing solo and have enough to deal with in terms of nerves and remembering words (!), it really doesn't help not to be able to just plug in and get a good sound. Still, I've been reading up on the Venue and playing around with it in rehearsal rooms, and I have a gig tomorrow night where I can try to put what I've learned into practice. So I'll let you now how I get on.

Since you invited me to ask you about the Venue, I'll ask you this: if I filter out a feedback frequency using the notch filter, would it be wise to also cut that frequency on the eq? Or should I just use the eq to get the best sound and the notch filter for feedback?

Thanks

Tim

[Caleb_Elling]

Tim,
Typically, you'll get the best results by using the Phase button to find the best phase for each room. Then you can use the Notch to cut out the primary resonant (feedback) frequency for the guitar, and that should take care of the majority of your feedback issues. Then you can use the EQ to shape your sound and get the most out of your pickup system, no matter what PA or amp you're playing through.

Let me know how it goes.

[timkjuk]

Well, what d'ya know? No feedback! As I said, I spent a few hours in a rehearsal studio last week messing around with the system and managed to isolate the feedback there. When I plugged in on Friday night, there was no hint of feedback. I'm guessing that the notch filter cuts a default feedback frequency for the instrument, independently of the particular venue. So, I'm very happy about that.

However, I didn't find that the guitar sounded that good. This may have been simply because I was getting it through the monitor and didn't know what it sounded like through the PA, but it sounded a bit over-bright at the top end and just a bit clunky at the lower end - lacking any warmth or depth. My Martin sounds especially warm when recorded, even with a fairly basic mic. I didn't mess with the EQ that I had set in the rehearsal studio - where it sounded fine. I was just so relieved that I was feedback free, I decided not to tempt fate. But I would like to know how to go about adjusting the EQ in the wild, as it were. Or should I be able to set the sound I want on the Venue as a one-off and not have to adjust each time?

Oh, and I didn't touch the phase button - again, not to tempt fate. How would I know which phase setting is best? Is it just down to feedback sensitivity or are there other criteria?

Many thanks for your help so far

Tim

[Caleb_Elling]

The phase button will react differently for different kinds of pickups. For the Lyric, usually one phase will be more stable, while the other will be more prone to feedback. The better phase may change from room to room though.

As far as the EQ, that is also largely dependent on the room as well as the PA system. This is why it's hard to make concrete recommendations for EQ. Usually, the necessary EQ changes will be pretty confined to specific ranges though. Unless you are playing through an abnormally bad system.

If the top end is consistently bright, it might be a good idea to lower the Presence on the Lyric, slightly. If the low-mid cut isn't working out, you might try boosting 200-300Hz to try and warm the signal up a little. Again, the exact frequency may vary.

[Censio]

Precisions

Hello,
Can you explain simply how to solder m80 and lyric to make a combo?
There is 3wires for m80 but only a hole and a square to solder them on the lyric preamp. Can you precise wich wire on wich place to solder? Sorry i am french so I do not understand everything.

[Caleb_Elling]

Hello,
Can you explain simply how to solder m80 and lyric to make a combo?
There is 3wires for m80 but only a hole and a square to solder them on the lyric preamp. Can you precise wich wire on wich place to solder? Sorry i am french so I do not understand everything.

Hey Censio,
The diagram below shows the basic wiring. On the M80's output cable, red is the signal/hot and the bare wire is ground. The white wire is not used in the passive configuration.

The ground solders to the square pad on the bottom left.

Stereo Endpin Wiring.jpg


I hope it helps.

[Censio]

Thanks

Ok!!!! Only one question more, if the white wire is not used can I keep the m80 stero Jack and I leave the white wire not soldered or i better take a mono jack wire?
Thank you so much! You are the King! In France or on french websites there is absolutely no information about these combo...

[Caleb_Elling]

Ok!!!! Only one question more, if the white wire is not used can I keep the m80 stero Jack and I leave the white wire not soldered or i better take a mono jack wire?
Thank you so much! You are the King! In France or on french websites there is absolutely no information about these combo...

The white wire can be left disconnected in this situation. It is only necessary to use when using the pickup in active mode.

[Censio]

The white wire can be left disconnected in this situation. It is only necessary to use when using the pickup in active mode.

Thank you a lot, i'll tell you when it will be done

[Censio]

So i made the combo and i first thought it was not working. But i read again and again untill my poor brain contact and said "stereo! dear master".

But other questions now ! Ah ah it is never finished..
do i have to pass throught the lyric preamp? Can I just solder on input jack ?:
I thought that I could solder the m80 hot on the hot input jack and the ground to the ground directly by this way I Will not pass through the preamp and by this way I can leave the m80 active. The lyric volume control will control both m80 and lyric but I can add a volume potentiometre after the preamp and before the lyric mic to control the lyric volume independantly. Or can change the lyric volume control place?
Thanks

[Caleb_Elling]

Unfortunately, the Lyric preamp does not have any level of blending capability built into it. If you tried to add the M80 and the Lyric onto the same "tip" contact, both pickups would interact with each other, and severely alter the tone, level, and impedance of both sources. This is why the Lyric has the option of adding a second pickup for stereo output only. From a stereo output on the Lyric, you can go into a stereo preamp or mixer to blend your signals together, without any kind of negative interaction between sources.

I'm sorry for any confusion. I tried to thoroughly explain that this is a stereo configuration.