Lyric in Waterloo ?????

[Oldghm]

Has anybody installed a Lyric in A 00 size Waterloo??

[Caleb_Elling]

Hwy Oldghm,
I haven't personally, but from looking at the guitar, I don't know why it wouldn't work.

[Oldghm]

Hi Caleb

I was just wondering how it would sound. Mine is an X braced model, but there is no room on the bridge plate for the mic, in front or behind.

This guitar (Waterloo) has considerably less bass than the CEO 7 that I put a Lyric in, and that one is not on the bridge plate either. I am playing that guitar, (CEO 7) on stage, but not totally satisfied with the results. It is not bad, just doesn't capture the true sound of the instrument.

I was hoping that someone else had already been there, done that, to provide an educated opinion on the results with a Waterloo.

As missing low tones are the issue with the Lyric / CEO 7 install, and the Waterloo doesn't have that same bottom end, I am considering replacing the Lyric in the CEO with an ibeam, and then putting the Lyric in the Waterloo.


O..

[Caleb_Elling]

Do you have enough room in the CEO7 for the iBeam? The iBeam is usually going to be significantly less reliable if you can't put it directly under the saddle.

If it will work, I would say that your plan is solid. The Lyric might play better in the Waterloo if it naturally has less bass.

[Oldghm]

So I finally got around to ordering a new iBeam for the CEO7. Installed it yesterday, it fits on the bridge plate and sounds really good. I may be a bit biased, but this is the fourth guitar I have iBeams in and I think it suits this one best as far as sounding like the guitar.

This morning I put the Lyric in the Waterloo WL-14-XTR. The Lyric / Waterloo is a much better match. I have not experimented with position, it is a tight fit, but I placed it on the bridge plate and it sounds pretty much like the guitar, much, much closer than in the CEO.

I have been gigging with the CEO7 / Lyric, but taking two guitars, and each time I have switched away from it and played whatever else I had with me. This weekend I plan on taking the CEO and the Waterloo. Two similar feeling guitars with totally different sounds. I know going in that the Waterloo won't suit me except for certain songs, but I have always been comfortable with the iBeam on stage in the other guitars so I think it will be fine.

[Caleb_Elling]

It always amazes me how different pickups respond to different instruments. It can be frustrating to find the "holy grail" for each guitar, but when you find the right fit, there's nothing better!

[Oldghm]

Just noticed this thread has had over 500 views, I suppose many did not know that Waterloo was a guitar brand. Never-the-less, thought I would return to give my impression of the Lyric in the the Waterloo in a gigging atmosphere. The night started out slow and I decided to use the Waterloo for my first set. I use a Bose Model II with a T1. I had a scene saved from using the Lyric with the CEO 7 and I used that scene to start. I only needed some minor adjustments to satisfy my ear, and played that guitar for a continuous two hour set. I was able to play at a high volume and the tone was natural, very much like the guitar, and cut like a knife with clarity. So different from my experience with the same mic in the CEO 7.

I am a life long acoustic player and as such have spent many years playing to external mics before pickups became good enough to provide tone similar to the real sound of the instrument. As a result of many years of that style of playing I tend to play with a hand that brings the most natural tone and volume from the instrument, not depending on a soft touch and letting the amp pick up the slack. The Waterloo, unlike some of my D size instruments and a couple of 000's, does not respond well to aggressive play, it is relatively easy to drive into distortion. The Lyric was true enough to the guitar sound that I was able to play with the touch necessary to maintain natural tone and still crank it up to performance volume in a pretty loud bar environment.

My experience suggests that the Lyric works better in guitars that don't have a lot of low frequency warmth. I would not hesitate to recommend the Lyric for the Waterloo WL-14 instruments. I think if you like the natural sound of the guitar, you will like the results with the Lyric.

I played the Lyric / WL-14 through the Model II with T1, a Bose Compact with PARA Acoustic DI, and an inexpensive Harbinger system, all provided very good results.

The CEO 7 with iBeam performed as expected. The iBeam is my favorite Baggs pickup, I currently have one in 4 different guitars. I think the iBeam has certain characteristics that show up in each guitar, but each guitar still shows it's own personality. In that respect, the CEO 7 was no different, it has a unique sound acoustically and retained that uniqueness with the iBeam.

O..

[sbpark]

I have a WL-14XTR and think a Lyric would be a killer pickup for it as long as you understand it takes a bit of patience and dialing it (er, out) the EQ, and aren't expecting massive low end. I've had Lyrics in a couple guitars so far (J45, D28) and they eventually ended up sounding great after figuring out that you have to putt out quite a bit of low mids, and you need a good EQ/Preamp/DI to do this. I found shortcomings with the LR Baggs Venue and Fishman Aura Spectrum DI (without using the modeling) for this application, but the PADI should work well given it's more powerful EQ. I used a Radial PZ Pre with my Lyrics when I had them and they sounded great. But if your in a situation where you don't have the luxury of doing a soundcheck or dialing in your EQ or can't use your own EQ/Preamp/DI it's more prone to sounding crummy and feeding back.

[Oldghm]

Hi sbpark,

While it is easy enough to get feedback with the Lyric, keeping the tone near the natural sound of the guitar goes a long way in preventing feedback as an issue in a gigging situation. I like to play guitars on stage that please me with their natural sound, so I also prefer pickups that retain that sound. The least amount of peripheral equipment such as EQ, preamp, etc. that I need to use, the better I like it.

Even with the Lyric in the Martin CEO 7 I wouldn't describe the sound as crummy, and I had no feedback issues that would seriously interfere with a gig. My experience of trying to get the full, warm tone of the CEO 7 out of a PA with the Lyric was not successful, but everything I heard suggested the Lyric would work well with the Waterloo, and I believe it does. Using Bose equipment and presets I have to make some minor eq adjustments to get the natural sound I like, with the inexpensive Harbinger system it sounds perfectly natural with the system flat. If it would transport and set up as easy as the Bose I might be using it. As I am typing this I realize I haven't tried the Waterloo / Lyric / Bose combo without a preset. I'll do that at next weeks gig.

Personally, I would not recommend the Lyric for any guitar that has deep, full bass, or for any player that expected to get that kind of sound with the Lyric. There are other, better choices that will either pick up naturally the low end of an instrument, or enhance low end if it is lacking naturally. Having not played a D size instrument with a Lyric properly installed, I might be missing something that would change my perspective, so this is just one man's opinion, nothing more.

I have not played a guitar with the Anthem, but I do have element equipped guitars and that combination of UST and MIC should work well if one doesn't mind UST's, you'll never be lacking for low end with an element. However, the iBeam works well for me without the need for messing up or adjusting the action. Three of the instruments I have iBeams in have Adirondack tops. Adirondack topped guitars tend to have a lot of bottom and the iBeam does a great job making it manageable.

O..

[GGBB1]

Do you have enough room in the CEO7 for the iBeam? The iBeam is usually going to be significantly less reliable if you can't put it directly under the saddle.

First post here - hello everyone!

Sorry to raise a topic from the dead, but I'm attempting to install an iBeam into my CEO-7 and am hoping that Oldghm will chime in about this. I have only hand positioned it so far, and yes - there is room - but it just barely fits between the braces underneath the saddle. It appears to be almost dead even with the peg holes and right against the braces, so there is no room for adjustment at all (well - maybe a half-millimeter). I am concerned about two things. First - the string ball ends will probably push against the iBeam or at least contact it. And second, although it is directly under the saddle, it is not aligned with it. Instead it is parallel with the peg holes, so the bass side of the saddle is about centered over the iBeam, but the treble side is well away from center (I'm sure you can picture that).

So - Oldghm is this where you installed your iBeam in your CEO-7? Or did you place it behind the peg holes (not under the saddle)? Did you encounter the same issues with the room between braces and ball ends?

[Oldghm]

Hi GGBB1,

The iBeam is a tight fit but works. It is under the saddle and the ball ends do not touch the pickup.Use the jig, a mirror, and light to get it about the same spacing on each end and it should be fine.

O..