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  • Using other Mics to create voiceprint

    Hi,

    Wondering if i can use a digital interface supported by iPhone to use any mic and create the voiceprints? Also, Worth to do it? I mean I’m not expert on IR and the algorithms that you are using to create the voiceprint, so not sure if a condenser/ribbon will provide more data and generate different sound than the iPhone’s mic.

    thanks

  • #2
    Hey luischi,
    Thanks for posting.

    I know that this topic is going to be a popular one, so it is something that the Baggs R&D team has messed around with. In our tests, we were able to get some pretty nice results, but ultimately we've always preferred the VP's made with the iPhone mic for live applications. When you use an external mic, the mic qualities do translate to the Voicprint, so it's worth playing with if you want to get a wider variety of sounds.

    To start with, you will need something to plug the mic into. I used my Focusrite Scarlett 2i2, but other USB-powered interfaces like that should work too. The Scarlett can't pull enough power from the phone to work correctly on its own, so I had you use a USB hub in between the phone and the interface. I used this one: [url]https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07G8CMR18/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1[/url]

    Then the Hub plugs into an iPhone dongle to adapt it to the iPhone. The app/phone should recognize and automatically use the new mic. Set the gain on the interface appropriately and open up the VP creation page to check the levels on the VU. Tapping on the external mic is a good way to make sure that it's being recognized by the system. I had to reset my app in order to get it to work.

    Other products that should also work would be things like the iRig, or interfaces that use a 3.5mm connection out into the iPhone. Of course, newer iPhones may need a dongle to adapt correctly and you have to use the correct TRSS configuration to get the mic connected to the right contact in the phone.

    The last option would be a plug and play style mic that is designed to plug into the iPhone. Shure, Sennheiser, and others make these, but it does limit you to one mic. Using an interface of some kind allows you to use whatever mics you have available.

    I hope this helps. If anyone plays around with this, be sure to let us know how it goes.

    Comment


    • #3
      I’m just waiting to receive my VPDI and start playing, but now that read your answers other ones came up. Hope to not overwhelm you.

      As I mentioned I’m not expert on acoustic IR measurements but trying to understand how tech work and get most benefit of this valuable innovation that you created, here a couple of questions:[LIST][*]iPhone’s Mics from ver 6 to current ver 12 are not the same on many things like frequency response, omnidirectional pattern, perhaps. How much will be different in a VP created using an IPhone 6 or IPhone X or iPad(understanding that app works on iPad but was not created for iPad)[*]Using external mic and interface connected to the iPhone/iPad, Is there any minimal bit rate and frequency sampling required to get the desired amount of information on an acoustic IR measurement?[*]Some of my questions come due the usage of tapping harmonic technique on finger style. Do you have any additional suggestions to have a VP “tuned” for this technique/resource?[/LIST]Thanks for your time answering

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      • #4
        Ok,
        The iPhone mics do vary a bit from one phone to the next, and those changes can be heard in the VP. Just like any mic, changing the placement in relation to the instrument is the best way to get the best sound from each mic. So the general Voiceprint creation walkthrough still applies, but making slightly changes in the mic placement can improve your results. It will just take some trial and error, which is why this forum should be helpful. As people find out what works best for them, they can share their settings and help other players with their experience.

        A higher bit/sample rate is going to be ideal for the best VPs. The VPDI runs at 96khz and 24 bits. So using a higher quality preamp/converter will only improve the quality of the resulting Voiceprint.

        The Voiceprint DI is still relying on the pickup in the instrument to "generate" sound. So if your pickup works well for tapping and your preferred playing style, the Voiceprint should only improve it. If your pickup isolates body noise, then the VP will do the same.

        I hope this helps.

        Comment


        • #5
          This post was deleted by accident. Sorry, [USER="14307"]Euphonon_John[/USER]

          There are several iPhone measurement mics available:

          [B]Dayton Audio iMM-6[/B] available from Amazon for $20, and from Parts Express for $16.48
          (out of stock until January 15, 2021)

          [B]MicW i436 [/B]available from B&H for $120
          (uses TRSS on the iPhone 6 and 6S)

          [B]MicW i437[/B] available from B&H for $150
          (uses Apple Lightning Connector)

          I have both the Dayton MM-6 and the MicW i436 and will compare my voiceprints with those of the iPhone mic in the near future as my Voiceprint DI just arrived today: it's quite impressive.

          I think what I like best is not having to reach down to the floor to make adjustments. The older you get, the more appealing this becomes ;) I typically gig with two or three instruments and to have presets for each with input gain adjustments for every instrument/pickup combination, and consistent output levels for all going to FOH and monitors is a most welcome feature.

          As for mic placement, I was pleasantly surprised to see your recommendation for 6-8" away from the 16th fret. In the studio my preferred combination of mics is a Neumann KM-184 at the 16th fret (but parallel to the strings), and a U-87 off the bridge about a foot, slightly towards the belly of the guitar. One of the comparative tests I'll make is moving the iPhone parallel rather than facing the strings.

          Best regards,
          John

          Comment


          • #6
            [USER="14307"]Euphonon_John[/USER]
            I can't wait to hear your results with those mics. We did some tests with some of those early on, so I'm curious to hear your thoughts.

            As for mic placement, I've actually been getting better results with the phone/mic 8"-10" away. Putting the mic too close seems to make for some pretty tubby sounding Voiceprints.

            Comment


            • #7
              I think you're right about placement; you have to be aware of the column of air that radiates from the soundhole.

              I've been using StudioSixDigital's RTA app for room tuning for years. One of the releases of the iOS allowed their app to turn off the bass roll-off attenuation that while useful for telephony, is not so good for acoustical analysis. I'm confident the VPDI app takes advantage of the same switch.

              Attached is a frequency response graph of the iPhone 6S, 7, and X internal mics. It's easy to see why the internal mic works so well for VP analysis.

              [ATTACH=JSON]{"data-align":"none","data-size":"full","data-attachmentid":9522}[/ATTACH]
              (taken from [url]https://signalessence.com/can-you-use-an-iphones-internal-microphone-for-acoustic-testing-and-accurate-recordings/[/url])
              Attached Files
              Last edited by Euphonon_John; 12-17-2020, 09:03 AM.

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              • #8
                I tested a few guitars with the MicW i435 measurement mic with my iPhone 6S. The results were very good, but I haven't done a comparative VP with the iPhone internal mic.

                I will say this, the VPDI did a fabulous job with my L-5 and Pick Up The World piezo. It's my least liked piezo of all simply because the output is so very low. PUTW sells a preamp engineered specifically for their under archtop bridge but I didn't purchase it. The VPDI created a voiceprint that's excellent, and combined with a custom EQ and FB analysis, I've got a combination that will work for my next swing gig with the big band (whenever that may be :( ).

                Comment


                • #9
                  [QUOTE=Euphonon_John;n9528]I tested a few guitars with the MicW i435 measurement mic with my iPhone 6S. The results were very good, but I haven't done a comparative VP with the iPhone internal mic.

                  I will say this, the VPDI did a fabulous job with my L-5 and Pick Up The World piezo. It's my least liked piezo of all simply because the output is so very low. PUTW sells a preamp engineered specifically for their under archtop bridge but I didn't purchase it. The VPDI created a voiceprint that's excellent, and combined with a custom EQ and FB analysis, I've got a combination that will work for my next swing gig with the big band (whenever that may be :( ).

                  [/QUOTE]

                  That's great to hear!

                  Comment

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