Post issues (tubby sounding Voiceprints)

[Caleb_Elling]

Hey all,
There have been a few issues today where posts have been deleted. This has not been on purpose and I am looking into the cause. I'm so sorry for the confusion and inconvenience.

The conversation regarding muddy or tubby Voiceprints was unfortunately removed and cannot be restored. I feel like this is a very important conversation right now, so for anyone who was involved in the conversation, please keep it going here or elsewhere, if possible.

[aaronmarkson]

I’m one who is experiencing tubby sounding voiceprints. no matter what I do. Lots of lows and low-mids.

Things I have tried:

- Placing the phone 8“, 10”, 12” & 16” inches from the 16th fret
- Pointing it closer to the 12th fret
- Turning the phone so it so its parallel to the guitar about 10” out at the 16th fret.
- Took my case off phone in case that made a difference.
- Moved phone up and down rather than directly in plane with the soundhole.
- Reset pedal and re-install app.

I am not unfamiliar with recording and mic placement.

I have an older iPhone that I might try next. After that, I’m out of ideas.

The amazing thing is that the EQ is so extensive and powerful, that I can take a super tubby sounding voiceprint and turn it into something that sounds pretty great. It takes some fairly extreme EQ and is reason enough to want Separate EQ for the voiceprint along with the overall EQ.

[Caleb_Elling]

For anyone else reading, I had mentioned checking the mic ports to make sure that they don't have any pocket lint trapped in them. We found that lint caused some phones to lose high-end response, which ultimately made the VPs sound dark and bassy.

Aaron, I ran this by Lloyd who mentioned that he also had the same experience with dark/tubby VPs. For him, playing more softly and specifically tapping more softly (during the tapping step) when making the VP made a big difference. I haven't experienced this myself, but I am going to take a DI home for the weekend to see what I can try to reproduce.

[aaronmarkson]

Caleb - good call on checking for lint. I did check that and that wasn’t the issue for me.

Playing softly and tapping softly is what I’ll try next.
I definitely tapped on the bridge pretty loud/hard and played at full volume when making the voiceprints.

[Caleb_Elling]

[QUOTE=aaronmarkson;n9532]I definitely tapped on the bridge pretty loud/hard and played at full volume when making the voiceprints.[/QUOTE]

Ok, playing softer might do the trick. Let us know how it goes.

[aaronmarkson]

I tried making a new voiceprint tapping and playing softly. It was better. Not perfect, but with eq would be good. Unfortunately, something happened. After I made this new VP, I deleted some old ones and moved the new ones, all in the app. And now I get nothing coming through. No matter if it is bypassed or not. No signal is passing through. I unplugged everything and restarted the app. Still nothing. I didn’t try a factory reset and fresh install of the app. Will try that next week.

[Caleb_Elling]

[QUOTE=aaronmarkson;n9570]I tried making a new voiceprint tapping and playing softly. It was better. Not perfect, but with eq would be good. Unfortunately, something happened. After I made this new VP, I deleted some old ones and moved the new ones, all in the app. And now I get nothing coming through. No matter if it is bypassed or not. No signal is passing through. I unplugged everything and restarted the app. Still nothing. I didn’t try a factory reset and fresh install of the app. Will try that next week.[/QUOTE]

What you're experiencing is something that 2-3 other people have run into. We should be releasing an app update this week that will solve the issue entirely. You may still need to reset the pedal though. The issue happens when preset data is corrupted when moving presets around. The update is going through some final tests today and should be approved for release.

Sorry about that.

[aaronmarkson]

Caleb - Any update on the release of the app update?

I did have to reset the pedal and it's working again.

I made some new voiceprints after the reset. They are still quite muddy / tubby sounding. Once again - slightly better if I play with a light touch.

For kicks, I tried using an old iPhone 6s and I got the same or similar results. It is strange. I have no problem recording these guitars without them being boomy.

I am going to try making a voiceprint using an external mic at some point and see what that is like. I need some additional equipment first.

While it is frustrating, I am not giving up. If anything, it highlights the EQ section and how much can be done with it.

I am very much looking forward to the update as well as the advanced toolkit to be able to eq the Voiceprint separate from the preset. It will take a little work, but I think this will allow for a really good result even if the voiceprints start out with all that low and low mid accentuation. I personally don't mind doing the work on the front end and then saving the presets to be used with no or minimal tweaking after that. That may not be the case for others. This also seems to be happening to only some users.

[Caleb_Elling]

Hey Aaron,
I actually just got word that we submitted the update to Apple today. So it should come through the App store by tonight or early tomorrow. That should fix all of the known-issues with the dead Voiceprints/presets.

[Chipp]

My Voiceprint DI arrived yesterday and mine also become boomier as that's increased in the mix. I know these can be equalized and it's readily apparent that this will eventually work extremely well, but I've learned from experience that cleaner from the start will provide the best range of tonal options with the least amount of manipulation in the end. So my question is: Will increasing the level of the transducer from the guitar help that problem, or is it boomy because it thinks there's a need for more of the reverberant sound (not less) that's picked up by the mic?

[Caleb_Elling]

Hey Chipp,
Thanks for posting.

The first thing I would look at is the mic placement when you're making your Voiceprints. Can you tell me where you have the mic positioned relative to the soundhole and neck joint of the guitar?

Also, I've found that playing a little softer can make a big difference in the quality of the VP. Playing too loud can overwhelm the mic (in some cases) and make the VP pretty boomy.

[Chipp]

Hi Caleb -

I had the phone sitting on a microfiber dust cloth on a teak desk protruding as far as it would safely, and aimed directly at the sound hole about 6 - 8" away. Later I moved it towards the bottom end of the guitar, further away, but still aimed at the sound hole. I remember seeing it aimed at the fingerboard in one of the videos but that seemed counterintuitive and I have not tried that. This is a large dreadnaught with a big resonant sound, so if overdriving the mic is not good, it's entirely likely that's the problem, but the incoming mic level didn't look overdriven. I'll try going easier on it again tomorrow. Should I be thinking of more or less bottom end to end up with less of that in the VP, or is the process more complicated than that?

[Caleb_Elling]

Hey Chipp,
I think that the mic placement is definitely the first issue. Aiming the mic directly at the soundhole is going to sound very boomy, whether it's a phone mic or a studio condenser. Mic'ing the lower bout of the guitar may not be quite as boomy, but it won't have any definition either.

I'd definitely recommend using the placement recommended in the app, with the phone pointed roughly mid-way between the soundhole and the neck joint, and 8-10" away from the guitar. If you're using a single mic, this is typically going to sound the most balanced. You can definitely experiment with the placement, but this is absolutely the best place to start in my experience.

You don't want to clip the mic or pickup inputs either, but getting the mic placement dialed in will make a huge difference.

[Chipp]

ONE SOLUTION - I have an iPhone XS, your iPhone may be different, and this was posted after my previous one about boomy/tubby Voiceprints.

1) I carry my phone on my belt in an Otter clip that includes a protective case. That case creates an opening about 3/16" deep around the bottom mic.
I took the case off to eliminate the acoustic issues that might create. When I did I was able to see the dirt that was in the opening for the mic, I couldn't see when the case was on.
2) I enabled Noise Cancellation on the phone, which enables the rear mic near the camera lens. That's at Settings -> Accessibility -> Audio Visual -> Phone Noise Cancellation.
I had not done this for previous Voiceprints and that's the only thing under AV that's enabled.
3) I happened to have several pieces of foam around so I built an inexpensive anechoic chamber (see attached) to eliminate most reflections in my studio which is not yet acoustically treated.
Note the small piece of foam that was used to keep the phone off of the bottom piece to avoid blocking the rear mic.
4) I used the default method to create a new Voiceprint, with the mic at a good level about 6-8" away from the phone.
I've done nothing more with it yet, but from past experience I can tell already that this is a big improvement.
The low end is not loose and boomy, the signal to noise ratio is much higher (which was becoming an issue after equalizing previous attempts), and while I'll probably run it in the 70 to 80 percent mix range, it doesn't become completely unusable - and much quieter - when turned all the way up.
5) From more than a little experience managing performance quality AV installations, I think most people are having this problem because of dirty mics and reflections from small room acoustics.

[Caleb_Elling]

That's quite the setup. If it works it works!

Let us know how things go after you get some more time to play with it. If you find that any specific aspect of your new setup is making the biggest difference, I'd be curious to hear it.

Thanks for sharing!