Signal Chain Question

[jaydguzman]

Hey everyone,

I'm excited to get the Voiceprint! I'll be using it with a Martin D-18 & a Taylor 314ce.

I have a basic signal chain question in regards to order.

In terms of pedals, for my acoustic guitars, I have the current pedals:

LR Baggs Voiceprint DI
Polytune 3 Noir
LR Baggs Session DI
Strymon Bigsky Reverb
Strymon Volante Delay

Strymon Ojai (Power Supply)

Which order would be best for these pedals? We'll be going back to limited services soon for worship and I have to split the signal at the end to go to the amp inside the sanctuary as well as into my USB interface (since we'll be streaming at the same time on Zoom) so I know that the Session DI should be last in the signal chain.

I know the Voiceprint has an effects loop, but I'm not sure how to use that or if I have to use that.

[Euphonon_John]

I have a similar set up. I plug guitar into the Polytune 3 and enable the Bonafide Buffer, the output to input of the VPDI. The rest of my pedals are in the EFX loop in this order: Session compressor, delay, and reverb.

[Caleb_Elling]

Yeah, you should be able to run the tuner first, then the VPDI, your delay and Reverb, and the Session DI last into the amp or mixer. That should work really nicely.

[jaydguzman]

[QUOTE=Euphonon_John;n9818]I have a similar set up. I plug guitar into the Polytune 3 and enable the Bonafide Buffer, the output to input of the VPDI. The rest of my pedals are in the EFX loop in this order: Session compressor, delay, and reverb. [/QUOTE]

Where do you connect to your amp? From the Session or the VPDI?

[Euphonon_John]

I use the outputs of the VDPI; phone jack feeds my amp and XLR to FOH and monitors. Note that my Session pedal is the compressor and not the DI.

[thirdie2002]

For simplicity sake, I just go straight into VPDI - tuner - delay - reverb - session DI - mixer. Im using the Session as my DI. I didnt want to be bothered by the effects loop because i would have to get longer patch cables. For aesthetic reasons, I decided to put the tuner after the VPDI. But Euphonon_John got me curious about having the buffer ON in the polytune so i might try putting the tuner first then the VP.

[Caleb_Elling]

[QUOTE=thirdie2002;n9822]For simplicity sake, I just go straight into VPDI - tuner - delay - reverb - session DI - mixer. Im using the Session as my DI. I didnt want to be bothered by the effects loop because i would have to get longer patch cables. For aesthetic reasons, I decided to put the tuner after the VPDI. But Euphonon_John got me curious about having the buffer ON in the polytune so i might try putting the tuner first then the VP.[/QUOTE]

That is a super clean looking board!

[thirdie2002]

[QUOTE=Euphonon_John;n9818]I have a similar set up. I plug guitar into the Polytune 3 and enable the Bonafide Buffer, the output to input of the VPDI. The rest of my pedals are in the EFX loop in this order: Session compressor, delay, and reverb. [/QUOTE]

What difference does having the tuner’s buffer on and going into the VPDI compared to when the buffer is off?

[thirdie2002]

[QUOTE=Caleb_Elling;n9824]

That is a super clean looking board! [/QUOTE]

Thanks Caleb!

[Euphonon_John]

[QUOTE=thirdie2002;n9825]

What difference does having the tuner’s buffer on and going into the VPDI compared to when the buffer is off?[/QUOTE

I’m not sure why, but the input of the VPDI is definitely more happy seeing the buffered signal. Polytune’ s documentation is sketchy, but does mention a very low signal to noise ratio and low impedance.

[thirdie2002]

[QUOTE=Euphonon_John;n9828][QUOTE=thirdie2002;n9825]

What difference does having the tuner’s buffer on and going into the VPDI compared to when the buffer is off?[/QUOTE

I’m not sure why, but the input of the VPDI is definitely more happy seeing the buffered signal. Polytune’ s documentation is sketchy, but does mention a very low signal to noise ratio and low impedance.[/QUOTE]

What is your guitar’s pickup anyway?

[Euphonon_John]

[QUOTE=thirdie2002;n9830][QUOTE=Euphonon_John;n9828] What is your guitar’s pickup anyway?
[/QUOTE]

I’ve got an assortment of guitars and pickups.

My best guitar has a 3 element using 12mm piezo discs (similar to K&K Mini) that I make using a better, lighter grade of Belden braid shield coax. Less weight is better, right? I have a Joe Mills mic wired to the sleeve/ring on the end pin jack on that Euphonon, and when I get the chance to play in a theater setting I’ll use a Grace Felix preamp to mix the bridge plate piezo with the Joe Mills mic. For the majority of my gigs where the venue noise floor makes using the Mills mic unfeasible, I’ll use only the bridge plate piezo with either my VPDI or ToneDexter.

My other gig guitars have Anthem or Anthem SL pickups, but I’ve changed out the stock under saddle piezo for one of my bridge plate piezo pickups on most of them. There are a couple exceptions where I swapped the stock under saddle in one instance for a K&K Mini that I’d already installed (before figuring out how to make a better one) and another instance I swapped the stock under saddle for a McIntyre Feather that the guitar’s luthier had installed when he built the instrument.

It kind of sounds like I have a thing about under saddle pickups. True that; my ears think that a proper fit bone saddle that makes perfect contact with the bottom of the saddle slot gives you the apex in vibration transmission from string to soundboard. Not only that, but under saddle piezos require a loose fit, and even though it’s only a matter of a few thousandths, that play makes the saddle lean towards the neck and thus shortens string lengths by a couple thousandths. Then there is the ‘quack’ that under saddle pickups are prone to have. Bridge plate piezo pickups (IMHO) are the better alternative.

Before any forum readers get enthusiastic and get to modifying their Anthems, you should know that when I retired I did a four month apprenticeship (over a two year period) with Daniel Roberts in Belgrade, Montana, where I built my Euphonon, and did dozens of repairs for Roberts clients. And when I was at the University of Idaho I studied electronics in the Industrial Ed program.

[URL=filedata/fetch?id=9842&d=1615238915][ATTACH=JSON]{"alt":"Click image for larger version Name:\tC9CC5501-F03F-4CA3-975D-8506952F9036.jpeg Views:\t0 Size:\t888.2 KB ID:\t9842","data-align":"none","data-attachmentid":"9842","data-size":"medium"}[/ATTACH][/URL]

L-R: My 1938 Larson Brothers Euphonon ‘Maybelle’, Buena Fortuna (my build), The Dragon Tongue (built by Dan Roberts as I progressed through my apprenticeship), and Queen of Spain (my commission build by Dan Roberts).

[Euphonon_John]

Caleb, I realize you might not want to publish my long post about pickups as it may be problematic. Let me know and I can edit, or if you have that capability feel free. JL

PS: If you’d like to hear the ‘38 Euphonon Maybelle, search YouTube for Robert Bowlin Maybelle.

[Caleb_Elling]

[QUOTE=Euphonon_John;n9844]Caleb, I realize you might not want to publish my long post about pickups as it may be problematic. Let me know and I can edit, or if you have that capability feel free. JL[/QUOTE]

It's a cool setup. I think most people know that modifying pickups like that [U]can[/U] void the warranty. So it's no problem for me.

It works for you, so I think it's worth sharing.

[Euphonon_John]

Thanks Caleb. I think it’s worth sharing as well. If you’re interested I can upload a photo of my transducer and where to get the parts. The real trick was reading the data sheet for the piezo disc element that detailed how to solder the coax leads to their product. And reading a paper from some grad student that discussed adding mass to the piezo to control the frequency response which can reach 50kHz.